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Author Topic: Suspected no spark, can't determine problem, Help! (Long)  (Read 1409 times)
BusDriver
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« on: March 27, 2008, 02:50:00 PM »

So I've bought a 74 Westy in non-running condition from a PO who didn't know much about the past history of the vehicle and I'm trying to get her started...I am suspecting I am having a problem prior to the coil and possibly in the voltage regulator (see latter). At the moment I am following the John Muir How to Keep Your VW Alive Book but I'm in a section that is lacking pictures and detailed description.

I'll try to be thorough on the present situation:
-When key is in on (not started) position the oil light is on but the battery light is off.
-When I try to start, the starter is turning but then I get no ignition.
-I put some gas into the carb and try again, nothing.
-I tested the wire from the coil leading to the distributor cap by turning alternator by hand and placing the wire ~1/8" from the engine while the key is in the on position, no spark.
-I inspected the fuse prior to the coil and it is good.
-I measure the voltage at the fuse using a Voltmeter and grounding on the engine, the measured value here is 0.25V, seems low, shouldn't this be 12V coming into the coil?
-So then I look into what I think is the voltage regulator and it looks like there is a glass fuse missing on the closest corner of the voltage regulator, any input on this picture?
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Also there are some wires that are severed that are exiting this circuit board. Here:
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Thanks,  Im New here
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Bringing back a 74 Westy after 3 years of sitting. Running strong after 92 days of LMB!
17MPG(I think) - 009 Dizzy, Electric Fuel Pump, Weber 32/36 DFAV carb, Short in some component in the 7th Fuse, rust, rust, rust.
All Awesome.
GostaBerling
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« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2008, 03:21:22 PM »

I may be wrong here, but even with a fried voltage regulator you should still get full volts to the coil if the battery is charged.
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"I became an archaeologist because I wanted to drive around in a big Land Rover, smoking, cursing, and finding treasure." - Carmel Schrire

Check out Willy's blog: Life and Adventures of a bus named Willoughby

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BusDriver
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« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2008, 11:50:41 AM »

The battery is brand new and fully charged, all lights turn on bright.
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Bringing back a 74 Westy after 3 years of sitting. Running strong after 92 days of LMB!
17MPG(I think) - 009 Dizzy, Electric Fuel Pump, Weber 32/36 DFAV carb, Short in some component in the 7th Fuse, rust, rust, rust.
All Awesome.
vdubyah73
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« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2008, 12:10:12 PM »

There should be a black wire that hooks up to the + on the coil. See if you have power there, with the key on.
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GostaBerling
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« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2008, 03:46:15 PM »

Voltage regulator Wiring:

Ok from the Bentley manual, page G of the electrical guide.

The regulator has 4 wires that go into/come out of it. 1 Brown wire that goes to a separable connector with the Green wire. 1 Green wire that connects to the Brown wire (not sure about these two the schematic is a little confusin). 1 Red wire that goes to the alternator. And finally 1 Blue wire that goes to the connector that is visible in your pictures. There are 2 blue wires that come out of the connection. 1 goes to the heater blower relay and the heater blower switch. The other wire goes to the alternator warning light.
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"I became an archaeologist because I wanted to drive around in a big Land Rover, smoking, cursing, and finding treasure." - Carmel Schrire

Check out Willy's blog: Life and Adventures of a bus named Willoughby

http://willoughbus.wordpress.com/
Dj:Eep
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I think I brained my damage.


« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2008, 05:33:15 PM »

"Fuse prior to the coil" is actually fuse post coil, pre reverse light switch.  That is, if'n yer talkin' 'bout the one inline in the engine bay.

Check for spark the ol' fashioned way, with yer tounge.  110  Kidding, if you haven't already tried this, pull the center wire from the distributor, and hold the loose end about 1/4" from a screw in the fan shroud (with rubber handled pliers!).  then you have someone crank the starter, looking to see if you get a nice blue spark. 
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BusDriver
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« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2008, 10:08:29 AM »

Thanks for the replies. I went to check on things last night but found that my battery drained while I was on vacation, I think I have a short in the cabin/hazard lights since the fuse was blown and there is a voltage over those leads in the fuse box. Battery was charged last night so maybe some real progress by tonight or tomorrow.
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Bringing back a 74 Westy after 3 years of sitting. Running strong after 92 days of LMB!
17MPG(I think) - 009 Dizzy, Electric Fuel Pump, Weber 32/36 DFAV carb, Short in some component in the 7th Fuse, rust, rust, rust.
All Awesome.
BusDriver
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Location: Oregon Country
Type: 74 Westfalia
Name: Maggie
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« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2008, 07:33:50 PM »

"Fuse prior to the coil" is actually fuse post coil, pre reverse light switch.  That is, if'n yer talkin' 'bout the one inline in the engine bay.

Check for spark the ol' fashioned way, with yer tounge.  110  Kidding, if you haven't already tried this, pull the center wire from the distributor, and hold the loose end about 1/4" from a screw in the fan shroud (with rubber handled pliers!).  then you have someone crank the starter, looking to see if you get a nice blue spark. 

I found some time to try this method tonight with no success. I assumed the problem was the coil, swapped in a new one, cleaned off all the leads, put it all back together correctly and repeated the method and once again no spark. I found the correct wire that brings in the 12V and measured that it does bring in 12V.

Van still doesn't start, I heard that the wires leading to and from the distributor can crack internally, I'm thinking I'll replace these unless someone else has a suggestion.
Logged

Bringing back a 74 Westy after 3 years of sitting. Running strong after 92 days of LMB!
17MPG(I think) - 009 Dizzy, Electric Fuel Pump, Weber 32/36 DFAV carb, Short in some component in the 7th Fuse, rust, rust, rust.
All Awesome.
Dj:Eep
LMB Resident DJ/WiseAss
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Location: In a bus, Oregonia USA
Type: '71 GhettoDeluxe, '79 FosterSunRoof
Name: Navin & Franklin
Posts: 2383


I think I brained my damage.


« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2008, 10:05:29 PM »

Replace all the ignition parts.  Plugs, wires, points and condenser.  Double check point gap is .016".  Make sure the 12v is going to the (+) or "15" post on the coil, and the condenser to the (-) or "1".
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DjEep goes "bump" in the night. :eeps_club:
BusDriver
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Location: Oregon Country
Type: 74 Westfalia
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« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2008, 09:53:36 AM »

Replace all the ignition parts.  Plugs, wires, points and condenser.  Double check point gap is .016".  Make sure the 12v is going to the (+) or "15" post on the coil, and the condenser to the (-) or "1".

I replaced plugs, wires, points and condenser and checked the rest. Still not starting, maybe even turning over more sluggishly, the battery is probably draining from the number of times I've been trying to start though. Still no spark if I pull out the coil to distributor wire and ground close to engine, but there is 12V there.

I'm all ears for anymore suggestions.
Logged

Bringing back a 74 Westy after 3 years of sitting. Running strong after 92 days of LMB!
17MPG(I think) - 009 Dizzy, Electric Fuel Pump, Weber 32/36 DFAV carb, Short in some component in the 7th Fuse, rust, rust, rust.
All Awesome.
Dj:Eep
LMB Resident DJ/WiseAss
Global Moderator
LoveMyBus SuperSecret Agent
*****
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Location: In a bus, Oregonia USA
Type: '71 GhettoDeluxe, '79 FosterSunRoof
Name: Navin & Franklin
Posts: 2383


I think I brained my damage.


« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2008, 12:22:05 PM »

I'll be passing through Corvallis tomorrow, if'n yer around I could lend a quick hand.
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DjEep goes "bump" in the night. :eeps_club:
BusDriver
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Location: Oregon Country
Type: 74 Westfalia
Name: Maggie
Posts: 56


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« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2008, 03:47:37 PM »

Ah, I wish I was around tomorrow, unfortunately I've got school all day. Unless you're passing through really early, like 8-9AM, after that I'm busy until 9PM.

Thanks for the offer!
Logged

Bringing back a 74 Westy after 3 years of sitting. Running strong after 92 days of LMB!
17MPG(I think) - 009 Dizzy, Electric Fuel Pump, Weber 32/36 DFAV carb, Short in some component in the 7th Fuse, rust, rust, rust.
All Awesome.
Dj:Eep
LMB Resident DJ/WiseAss
Global Moderator
LoveMyBus SuperSecret Agent
*****
Offline Offline

Location: In a bus, Oregonia USA
Type: '71 GhettoDeluxe, '79 FosterSunRoof
Name: Navin & Franklin
Posts: 2383


I think I brained my damage.


« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2008, 08:44:27 PM »

No prob.  I might be moving to newport next week, so I'll be passing thru a few more times.
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DjEep goes "bump" in the night. :eeps_club:
vdubyah73
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Location: Cape Cod, Mass
Type: 77 deluxe
Name: 3 of 7
Posts: 527


CHANGE THOSE FUEL LINES, ALL OF THEM.


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« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2008, 03:56:26 AM »

Are you trying to get a spark out of the green primary wire? Primary ignition wires are collectively all the light gauge wires going to and from the coil. Check spark by pulling the, heavy gauge coil,l wire out of the top center of the distributor cap. and holding it 1/4" from a good ground. Ignore the previous if you already know this! LOL
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CHANGE THOSE FUEL LINES, ALL OF THEM. See avatar

Http://bustersbestsandwiches.com
BusDriver
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Type: 74 Westfalia
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« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2008, 07:15:47 PM »

I've got spark!

But now the problem is I'm not getting gas through my carb. I know I have gas flow into the carb by taking off the gas hose and turning the key to on (I have an electric fuel pump that turns on with the ignition on).

I've poured gas down the carb and the bus will start up but only keep running until it burns up the gas that I've poured down.

My carb is a Weber 32/36 DFAV, does anyone have experience with these? If someone has a pdf or link to an online manual that would be great. I've heard that the float in a carb can stick and not let gas through if the car hasn't been used in a long time, is this common?

Very exciting day today, I feel like I'm so close to having her running consistently.
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Bringing back a 74 Westy after 3 years of sitting. Running strong after 92 days of LMB!
17MPG(I think) - 009 Dizzy, Electric Fuel Pump, Weber 32/36 DFAV carb, Short in some component in the 7th Fuse, rust, rust, rust.
All Awesome.
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